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ckain
11-25-2002, 03:41 AM
Since now we have a "standard" how to create quality mp3s, I'm just wondering why rippers won't include verification file like MD5, SFV or similiar checksums.

This would be great to ensure that leeched stuff is original and mint. :)

SephVBC
11-25-2002, 06:52 AM
#gamemp3s includes nfos, m3us, and sfvs with all their releases, but from what I've experienced, noone knows what they are (except m3u) and just delete/ignore them.

Most people have no clue what an SFV does. I use 'em though.

Secret Squirrel
11-25-2002, 10:23 AM
So how do you use the .sfv file? Is there an external program like Zidrav that you use to do the verification?

Avaxx
11-28-2002, 02:05 AM
There are a plethora of SFV checkers out there but of the must noteworthy would be either hkSFV (http://www.big-o-software.com/products/hksfv/?PHPSESSID=871d345fc42dcd34c206e0b56b70302c) or QuickSFV (http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Mouse/4668/). hkSFV is nice because you can load muptiple SFVs into a queue, if you will. I'd suggest trying either out (or similar programs) and find out what you like best.

Eriol
11-28-2002, 12:56 PM
So what is an SFV file?

dma
11-28-2002, 02:21 PM
It contains the CRC32 code of each files to verify, which is calculated using each octet of the file.
So if some are missing or incorrect, it won't give the same code during the verification process and then the file will INVALID [evil voice]wahahahah[/evil voice] ! ;)

I think it should be a part of the ID3 tags imo, because no one wants corrupted mp3s ...
It would also save lot of time (instead of listening the downloaded stuff from untrustable source to make sure it's correct).

But i think some softwares can check from unvalid mp3 frames, anyway i'm not sure if it's reliable ... :rolleyes:

Talus
11-30-2002, 12:51 PM
There are tools that can check mp3 files (like here (http://www.geocities.com/mp3utility/) or here (http://www.0vermann.de/soft/mp3check/mp3check.html)), but they can only check that the frames are OK, not the actual data. The problem with using SFV or similar "whole file" checksums is that if you alter the tag, the checksum will become invalid even though the audio data hasn't changed.

Fortunately, MP3 already has provisions for storing a 16-bit checksum in each frame, and since LAME can calculate those there's really no excuse for not using it! ;)

At least one of the tools mentioned above will also verify frame checksums.

dma
11-30-2002, 03:19 PM
I didn't knew mp3check, interesting ! :)

SephVBC
11-30-2002, 03:52 PM
CRC stands for cyclic redundancy check. It checks the integrity of the file to make sure there are no errors from the original source.

SFV stands for simple file verification. It's a simple way to verify files are identical to the original source. It's basically a file that has the following format

; comment, anything with a semicolon is a comment
; more comments
; created by <program name> on <date created> (usually automatic stuff the program puts in here

some file name.some extension <checksum>
; ie
01 some_mp3_title.mp3 0B034ACF

MD5, I forget what it stands for, but it's more advanced than SFV. SFV has some sort of flaw (mathematical, the way it calculates the checksum) insofar as it can't have unique values above a certain filesize limit. I forget the exact size, but if it's a large file, it has a chance of having the same checksum as a smaller file. MD5 uses larger checksums and a more advanced algorithm to calculate it.

There is a program, I Forget the name, but it embeds the CRC value of the mp3 into the id3 tag and verifies it with the audio stream to make sure you file is correct. This isn't standard, though. It also doesn't work on VBR files, since it can't read the audio stream right (if I Remember correctly), so it's basically useless for most of us that encode in vbr.

SFV is all you'll ever need for audio sharing, since mp3 files rarely exceed 15mb and it's a simple way of verifiying that there were no problems during download. MD5 is mostly for verification on very very large things, I think. Like hard drive images, large programs, stuff like that. The chances of you having the same CRC for two different mp3s is highly unlikely.

Hope that answers any questions. :/