Rock VGM

[Zeratul]

Considering how rare it's becoming now, discovering a new VGM album with great instrumentation, depth, and complexity in this genre can be one of the greatest things, especially in regards to things like Castlevania. Others are less well known because they likely come from underrated or overlooked games. So, what do you enjoy about rock VGM in general? What sub-genres of it do you enjoy a lot? Finally, what are your favorite albums and songs and why?

Personally, what I really enjoy about it is how powerful it can be when everything is done right. If done well, with a lot foresight, planning, and experimentation, it can become something that is always replayable with the same level of enjoyment as when the songs were first heard. Of its sub-genres, I enjoy pretty much anything assuming its composed well and executed with care. Often though, I find myself listening to the progressive rock, hard rock, techno-rock, and sometimes metal. Noise can be OK in small doses if I'm angry enough, which has been very rare lately.

My favorite albums and songs:

Guilty Gear Series: I first heard the GGX: HRTs and was hooked by the level of depth in every song. Having been turned away by the horrid, three second riffs I heard from the radio, the GGX: HRTs album finally showed me where to look if I wanted something that was far more than a cheap three minute songs on the radio. Later I discovered the GGOSC and GGXX and was just as impressed as when I first heard GGX: HRTs.

Favorite songs in the series:

A Solitude That Asks Nothing in Return - GGX, GGXX
Havent You Got Eyes in Your Head - GGXX
Existence - GGXX
The Original - GGX, GGXX
Suspicious Cook - GG
Still In the Dark - GGX
Awe of She - GGX, GGXX
Black Soul - GG
March of the Wicked King - GG
Momentary Life - All

R-Type Delta: I first heard this amazing combination of progressive rock and techno when I decided to buy R-Type Delta after having so much fun with Einhander. With every song synced to the flow of the levels, every song was unique and didn't loop at all. Instead, as the levels got more intense, so did the music to fit the setting. What may have started out as a heroic progressive rock piece could become a very frantic, tense theme that made one wonder if they would ever survive the levels.

Favorite songs:

R-Type Delta OST - Stage One, Stage Three, Stage Four, Stage Six

Megaman: As one of the most played game series I had before I got into RPGs, for some reason I never recognized how great the music was until later. As the series has progressed, the music has continued to improve as the composers experiment with new ways to combine hard rock with other influences to fit the theme of the stages or battles.

Favorite songs:

Megaman X4 - Jet Stingray, Cyber Peacock, Magma Dragoon, Double's Theme, Sigma Battle Two
Megaman X5 - Red Hot World (Burn Dinorex), Chase the Truck (Cresent Grizzly), Sigma Stages 2, Electric Trap (Volt Kraken)
Megaman X6 - Magma Area (Blaze Heatnix), High Max, Hunter vs. Hunter

Thunder Force V Perfect System: Though I've never played a TF game before, the creativity displayed in some of the songs still amazes me. The OST I've heard has so much variation in its style that the music, in spite of sound quality, remains one of the most played soundtracks in my playlist.

Favorite songs:

Deep Purple, Fatherless Baby, Iron Maiden, Armament Armed Arm, Duel of Top, Steel of Destiny

StarCraft: A lot of work went into producing the dark themes of StarCraft, and it shows for me becaus even after spending countless hours on the game I still don't tire of the Terran themes. The remixes are surprisngly good as well as they are some of the most interesting metal songs I've heard.

Favorites:

SC: BW - Terran 1 & 2, Zerg 2 & 3
SC Game Music Volum 1 - 12th Area, Zerg Are Coming, For Adun

Castlevania: So much great rock VGM has been composed for this series that there is almost no end to the great VGM one can find in this series alone. From the OSTs to the remixes, almost anything is worth listening to in this series.

Favorites:

Emperor: Battle for Dune: Though some of the songs sound orchestral or technoish in nature, many of the Harkonnen songs are some of the best VGM hard rock available with some techno influences. Atreides has some rock VGM, but Ordoss has very little at all.

Favorites:

Harkonnen - The Machine, Tribute to Evil, Harkonnen Force, Dark Alliance, War for the Spice, Defenders of Arrakis

Castlevania: SotN - Dracula's Castle, Tragic Prince, Festival of Servants
Dracula Battle 1 & 2 Perfect Selections - Beginning, Bloody Tears, Cross a Fear, Opus 13, Den, Thrashard in the Cave, Iron Blue Intention

Your turn.

[Eriol]

Battle Arena Toshinden 2
Guilty Gear X: HRT
Guilty Gear XX
F-Zero X Guitar Arrange

I consider Thunder Force V to be more of a techno-oriented album. When I think of power rock, I'm looking for some guitar action.

[JumboMaverick]

Falcom, Zuntata and Konami Battles. :)

[Rince]

Well, JDK Band Albums generally are very rocky too, besides all the great Konami Battle albums which are most masterfully performed in the rock department.

FZero X Guitar arrange is top notch too on the harder side.

[Monkeyman]

Hmm, I have to check few of the albums you listed there Zeratul, they seem interesting.

Here's a few rock albums that have not been mentioned:

20th Anniversary a Tribute to Game Music
This is a tribute album that contains arrangements from console and PC games. Awesome guitar work here. You probably won't find a complete 15 track rip of this though.
favourite songs: 4-The Warhawk, 7-Fire Pro-Wrestling Combination Tag Opening, 11-Street Fighter II Opening

Street Fighter II Instrumental & Street Fighter II Alph Lyla
Both of these albums are great. I like SF2 Instrumental more because of its faster tempo.
favourite songs:
SF2 Instrumental: 2-Crimson Fist, 5-Lonely Wolf, 8-Become the Storm
SF2 Alph Lyla: 2-Save the Holy Place, 4-Remembrance, 5-On His Beat

Tommy Tallarico Games Greatest Hits Vol. 1 & 2
Game music from USA. Albums contain music from games such as Terminator, Spot goes to Hollywood and Earthworm Jim. Yes, the games are not very known, but the music is great. Vol. 1 is just pure rock, but Vol. 2 also contains some orchestral pieces.
favourite songs:
Vol. 1: 1-Taking to the Air (Listen this with your headphones!), 5-Visions, 13-Destinationz Unknown
Vol. 2: 1-Tangerine, 3-Wasteland, 8-Falling, 23-Atlantis

[Zeratul]

True, TF does have some techno songs on it, but songs like Guardian's Knight, Duel of Top, Deep Purple, and Iron Maiden are more in the rock genre than some of the others. The whole album doesn't have to be rock for you to mention some of its songs.

I'll have to check out those Street Fighter albums since I've been wondering what ones would be good to download. They all looked the same to me so I couldn't really decide at first.

[Lentium]

While listening to Technosoft Game Music Collection Vol. 10 - Technology (Thunderforce V), the last thing that comes into my mind is techno music. Yes it does sound a bit industrial-influenced, with the filters and effects put on the guitar and the drum samples, but the guitar work is still unique enough to be called metal I think. This is always one of the albums I recommend to someone looking for a rock album, and is one of my personal favorites. Technosoft GMC 7 and 8 are pretty good too, done in the same style.

[Eriol]

Compare Thunder Force V with Lords of Thunder (particularly the Sega CD version), and you'll see why I don't consider Thunder Force V a strong example of rock music. I have very particular tastes when it comes to instrument samples. Yes, there is guitar and drum work in TFV, but it's isn't as pronounced as other games.

[Zeratul]

King of Fighters 2003:

Only some parts of this soundtrack are hard rock. But what is there is very good and very different from what's heard in other soundtracks. The way they mix the synth in with the electric guitar melodies makes this a very interesting listen.

Favorite songs: Splendidly Evil, Villainous

Metal Slug 5:

This soundtrack is harder and faster than anything previously mentioned. The compositions are very good to with their depth being in the excellent and prolongued guitar solos and radically different harmonies. Each song is different with their harmonies ranging from chanting and drum rhythms, techno piano influences, amazing synth backdrops, and even orchestrated counter melodies. This is a must listen.

Favorite songs: Heavy African, Windy Day, Zoom Down, Intrigue, Bottom of the Sea, Speeder, Fierce Battle (Dency's Arrange Version)

[GoldfishX]

What I like about rock VGM is simple: melody and instrumentation. Take a great melody, play it on an electric guitar or a good synth, back it up with whatever the hell you want to and I'm a happy camper. I much prefer it to other styles, like orchestral, piano or jazz, because from personal experience, the melodies just seem to hit harder as rock (even if a piano nails a melody, I won't like it as much as an electric guitar or a good synthisizer). Personally, I prefer synth-rock overall, but it depends on the tune more than anything. For example, I prefer the Konami Perfect Selection albums over the Konami Battle Perfect Selection albums, because the Battle albums are more interested in sounding rockish (a lot of solos and the like) while the other Perfect Selections generally concentrate on expanding on the melodies.

Favorites, favorites...Rockman series, Guilty Gear series, Phantasy Star Sound Collection 1, Konami Perfect Selections (Battle and otherwise), Falcom Perfect Collections, Ys series (Turbo Duo Redbook audio), JDK Band albums, The King of Fighters Arranged albums, many other SNK albums, F-Zero X OST and Guitar Arranged, any of Ailsean's arrangements...Really aren't any bad tracks in any of these albums.

Also, thanks...Need to have a look at Metal Slug 5 sometime.

[Eight Rooks]

Yay! No-one mentioned Black Mages! Since I hate it. Pfeh. Horrid production job, annoying guitar tone, nasty whiny synth sounds and I dislike most of the composition on the album anyhow. Introspective noodling without any real power or passion to it at all.

Thunderforce V is decent enough; it's one of the few synth guitar VGM albums I really like. Still sounds utterly fake on far too many tracks, but even those are far more direct, more hard-hitting, than any number of other releases. The synth works with the riffing, not against it.

F355 Challenge is probably the worst guitar VGM in existence. That I've heard so far, anyway. Hideous, aimless, screeching cock rock without any decent melodies or a shred of subtlety and some of the worst Jrock vocals I've ever come across.

Snatcher Battle I didn't like what I heard at all. I'm not a huge fan of the Konami Battle albums in general, either; way too prog, badly chosen influences, samples and synth noises, and the guitar tones aren't that great either. There are a few decent tracks on Dracula and Shooting 1 & 2, but only really enough to make maybe one solid album IMO.

JDK Band I heard volume 1 and wasn't impressed. Tinny, flat, terrible parpy synths that sound like My First Home Keyboard, awful Europe knock-off vocals, cheesy second-rate metaaal!!! riffing, dreadfully earnest fake-sounding acoustic picking, bad synth drums... no track held my attention for more than a few seconds.

F-Zero X arrange is how to do cheese right - perfectly serious and tongue-in-cheek at the same time, just like the games... lovely crisp fat guitar chops, tight musicianship, no obvious crappy synth, good clean melodies... mmm.

And if we're talking serious and silly all at the same time, Guilty Gear is, of course, still king. I still remember the first time I heard "Love Letter From..." the first soundtrack pales a little these days, but it's still head and shoulders above so much else out there it amazes me. GGXX is probably the best overall, the Korean edition close behind (no mention of that, Zeratul? For shame). Isuka is a disappointment, but there's a couple of great tracks on it, all the same. Ishiwatari cannot be equalled - those tunes lodge straight in my head and won't be shifted. :D

[Zeratul]

Does anypone know anything about Cyberorg? It's supposed to be a hard rock soundtrack composed by a Squaresoft composer and it's supposed to be very innovative. From what I've read it's almost like Devil May Cry with it being hard rock at its core but it has so many other influences like pipe organs pianos, etc., carried throughout the entire songs, not just the beginnings like Daisuke Ishiwatari, that makes this look like a very good buy for only $36.

[Dragon God]

Does anypone know anything about Cyberorg? It's supposed to be a hard rock soundtrack composed by a Squaresoft composer and it's supposed to be very innovative. From what I've read it's almost like Devil May Cry with it being hard rock at its core but it has so many other influences like pipe organs pianos, etc., carried throughout the entire songs, not just the beginnings like Daisuke Ishiwatari, that makes this look like a very good buy for only $36.

Cyber Org is definitely worth getting, the first disc is almost completely hard-rock based, while the second CD has tracks of orchestral nature. And Yoshihiro Sato isin't really a Squaresoft composer, he was hired by FuzzBox, the company that developed Cyber Org, Squaresoft only served as publisher for the title and DigiCube published the soundtrack :) Grab it quick, Zeratul ! This is one DigiCube you don't want to miss out on.

[Adaman]

Basicly what i love about rock VGM is the electric gituar, it just sounds so good with most VGM.

The Minibosses have done some great Rock VGM, the Kraid theme and Megaman 2 are superb, i suggest everyone check em out. I guess some of the F-zero Arranged album could count as rock, and it's great, same thing with Final Fight Mega CD Redbook. Um Jammer lammy has some good tracks...some.

Also, check out "Punch-Out!! Little Mac's Confession" by Game Over. Should be over at OCremix.

[Linear Helix]

Hehe, right around the time I was thinking "Has anyone mentioned the Black Mages?" Eight Rooks goes and says that... :p

I really liked the Black Mages. But then again rock is the only non-VGM I listen to, so if you combine the two genres you pretty much have my ideal music form.

[Eight Rooks]

Hehe, right around the time I was thinking "Has anyone mentioned the Black Mages?" Eight Rooks goes and says that... :p

I really liked the Black Mages.

* shrugs * What they appear to be trying to do - to me - has been done much better IMO. Obviously not FF tunes set to loud guitars :grin: , but something like the Metal Slug 5 OST or the Lords Of Thunder OST does the prog twiddling much, much better. Riffing's better, instruments aren't so... embarrassing, and the riffs are far more direct, much more of a kickass old-skool heavy metal feel to them. At least that's what I think. :p

Black Mages just never felt like it was going anywhere for me, and the production was bad, bad, bad. Didn't like the guitar tone and the keyboards felt all cheap and nasty. I'm certainly not Kenichiro Fukui's (sp.?) biggest fan, that's for sure...

Oh, and Lords > Gate Of Thunder for sure. :D

[_DH_]

Here is my list of VGM rock albums. Some of these lean more towards the fusion guitar side but I consider it rock nonetheless:

Ace Combat 2
All Star Pro-Wrestling 2 Original Soundtrack
Batman Returns (Sega CD)
Battle Arena Toshinden 2 Game Soundtrack
Battle Gear III The Edge
Battle Gear - Discovery of Roads
Best of Thunderforce
Burn! Justice High School OST
CANDY, Konami Music Instrument Series 5th Album
Cyberorg OST
Data Eas Delicious Selection ~ Gamadelic Best
Dracula Battle Perfect I and II
Falcom Special Box 94
Falcom Special Box '98 (fusion tracks)
Final Fight (Sega CD)
Final Fight GUY Special CD
FF The Black Mages
F-Zero X Guitar Arrange
Game Music Festival ~Super Live '92~
Gate of Thunder (Redbook)
Gitaroo Man OST
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius Perfect Selection I and II
Gran Turismo Rock Arrange
G.S.M. SEGA 2 - Power Drift and Mega Drive
G.S.M. SEGA 4 - Hyper Drive (Disc 1)
G.S.M. SEGA 5 - Formula (Disc 1)
Guily Gear series
Hyper Wars
King of Fighters Arranged albums (94-04)
Konami Racing Perfect Selection
Kukeiha Club ~Hope~
Kukeiha Club
Legend of Xanadu Super Arrange
Lords of Thunder (Redbook)
Lost Child OST
Megaman X1 Arrange
Metal Slug 5 OST
Motoaki Furukawa ~ Sound Locomotive
OutRun 2 Sound Tracks
Perfect Collection Konami Shooting Battle I and II
Perfect Collection Sorcerian I, II and II
Phantasy Star Collection I and II
R-Type Special
RC de Go!
Segarock Vol. 1 & 2
Soul Edge ~ Khan Super Session
Salamander ~ Pro Fusion
Sapphire (Redbook)
Sega Rally 2 ~ Re-Arrange Album
Shin Contra OST
Shin Sangokumusou (a.k.a. Dynasty Warriors) series
Snatcher Battle Perfect
S.S.H. compilation
S.S.T. Band - Blind Spot
Street Fighter II Arrange (Alph Lyra)
Tokimeki Memorial Guitar Collection
Tokimeki Pro Fusion
Twinbee Pro Fusion
Virtua Tennis (Dreamcast)
XEXEX Perfect Selection


I'm sure there are many more which I do not know of but those must be really obscure stuff.

[Eight Rooks]

I'm sure there are many more which I do not know of but those must be really obscure stuff.

You're missing F355 Challenge, if it has an OST... I mean I think it's some of the most hideous music ever recorded, let alone for a videogame, but then you've got Virtua Tennis listed and I can't stand that either. :sweat:

Dynasty Warriors... heh, I don't remember thinking that much of the music from 3 - but though 4 (which I'm playing quite a bit as of late) is still horribly, horribly cheesy in quite a few places, it's surprisingly a whole lot better. The Chinese instruments work pretty well IMO - though of course I'm always a sucker for that sort of thing - and though the riffing is fairly slapdash the guitar tone is nice and unsubtle, a real jagged, in-your-face kind of sound. I approve.

[xanadujin]

Although I can't really say rock is my favorite VGM genre (do I even have one?), I can really appreciate it when it's done well. I think rock goes great with fighting games, shooters, and action/RPGs, but at the same time, an unexpected rock soundtrack to a game can really make a big impression. Like pinball games.

But for the record, JDK Band (Kishimoto) sucks. I'm sorry, but it had to be said. Seriously, to those who love JDK Band, what do you see in it? There have been perhaps a handful of decent arrange tracks from JDK Band. The rest are corny and distasteful, and usually have poor instrumentation, especially those damn hollow drums...ugh. I'm not even a big fan of Konami's 'Battle' series. Some are OK, but it's just too cheesy for my taste.

- Justin Pfeiffer

[GoldfishX]

But for the record, JDK Band (Kishimoto) sucks. I'm sorry, but it had to be said. Seriously, to those who love JDK Band, what do you see in it? There have been perhaps a handful of decent arrange tracks from JDK Band. The rest are corny and distasteful, and usually have poor instrumentation, especially those damn hollow drums...ugh. I'm not even a big fan of Konami's 'Battle' series. Some are OK, but it's just too cheesy for my taste.

- Justin Pfeiffer

Can't complain about the JDK Band too much. I'm happy with the synthy instrumentation and they always manage to keep the spirit of the original Falcom melodies intact, which is the most important thing for me. Even most of the vocals are well-done...Their lead vocalist is probably one of the few Japanese male vocalists I can stomach (is it Kishimoto himself?) The only time I don't like what they do is when there is a better arrangement of the music. For example, "The Ordeal Becomes Great" on JDK Band 4 is a pale imitation of both the original and the Ys 4 PC version-the Egyptian-style part in the middle sounds so dull. Also, the version of "The Strongest Foe" on JDK Band 2 is just weak, even against the Ys 3 PC version (and of course, the Ys 3 Duo Redbook version). That and two of the vocal ballads are really bad (track 10 on JDK Band 1 and Track 9 on JDK Band 2) Overall, I've heard all 150 or so of their tracks and there's maybe ten I dislike.

Only thing I noticed was the way their instrument set-up seemed to change over the years. Everything up to mid-1994 was guitar driven, then it became noticably more synth driven, ending with the pile of garbage on the Ys 5 Image Album (don't even think these tracks had any guitar in them). I've always liked the drums myself...I've thought of them as being one of the JDK Band's strong points.

I prefer the JDK Band to the Konami Battle series, because the Battle albums spend more time sounding rockish (solos and the like) than they do exploiting the original melodies, but I still love both (I certainly wouldn't use the word cheesy to describe them). Depends what I'm in the mood for.

Actually, Xanadujin, I would've figured you'd love the JDK Band, with all the great LoX 1 and 2 tracks they've done.

[Eight Rooks]

But for the record, JDK Band (Kishimoto) sucks. I'm sorry, but it had to be said. ... The rest are corny and distasteful, and usually have poor instrumentation, especially those damn hollow drums...ugh. I'm not even a big fan of Konami's 'Battle' series. Some are OK, but it's just too cheesy for my taste.


Oh, so I'm not alone, then? Admittedly I've only heard Falcom JDK Band vol. 1, but I was still not particularly impressed. Weak, flat keys, horrible tinny guitar tone, melodies and riffing didn't grab me. I thought maybe they got better later on.

It's not as if I dislike JDK outright - my experience with them is fairly limited, but they do all the Falcom stuff, right? I liked Ys Healing: even though it's unbelievably "synth-y" (whining strings, rather cheap-sounding piano) the composition and general ambience elevates the album by miles. I liked Ys Symphony (only heard #1), LoX arranges, I'm currently enjoying the Legend of Heroes 6 music very much... but that one band album did nothing for me. Oh, and the Ys 6 soundtrack was not great, either, IMO. What I remember of it, anyway.

Konami Battle stuff's okay, but yes, cheesy, proggy, antiquated, convoluted, whatever you want to call it - far too few tracks IMO where anything really...gets its head down and goes for it, without some horrible parping keyboards, unwarranted twiddly bits or fill-in riffs dragging the arrangement on and on and on.

[GoldfishX]

Oh, so I'm not alone, then? Admittedly I've only heard Falcom JDK Band vol. 1, but I was still not particularly impressed. Weak, flat keys, horrible tinny guitar tone, melodies and riffing didn't grab me. I thought maybe they got better later on.

It's not as if I dislike JDK outright - my experience with them is fairly limited, but they do all the Falcom stuff, right? I liked Ys Healing: even though it's unbelievably "synth-y" (whining strings, rather cheap-sounding piano) the composition and general ambience elevates the album by miles. I liked Ys Symphony (only heard #1), LoX arranges, I'm currently enjoying the Legend of Heroes 6 music very much... but that one band album did nothing for me. Oh, and the Ys 6 soundtrack was not great, either, IMO. What I remember of it, anyway.

Konami Battle stuff's okay, but yes, cheesy, proggy, antiquated, convoluted, whatever you want to call it - far too few tracks IMO where anything really...gets its head down and goes for it, without some horrible parping keyboards, unwarranted twiddly bits or fill-in riffs dragging the arrangement on and on and on.

Hmm, I didn't think JDK Band 1 was that bad...Tinny guitar tone? Always sounded pretty crisp and full to me and the melody selection was some of Falcom's best up to that point in time (Valestine Castle, To Make the End of Battle, Cursed Desert, Major Demon...they were all killer tunes in their regular synth versions and the arrangements mostly just build on them). Still, JDK Band 1 was pretty much their best album, I think, so I wouldn't be expecting too much from them if you didn't like it. :sweat:

Seems you just enjoy Falcom's lighter music overall. They made a lot of that too. See if Ys V Orchestra, Legend of Heroes 3 Electric Orchestra, the Ys Piano albums and the Preprimer albums are more your taste. Obviously, you're not getting anywhere playing around with their rock-influenced material-Ys 6 was a pretty good indicator of most old-school Falcom tunes.

Yes, Sound Team JDK did (and does) all the Falcom stuff. Kishimoto's JDK Band was more of a side project, as the JDK Band mostly did supplemental tracks on a lot of albums. On the other hand, his polar opposite, Tamiya Terrashima did a lot of synth-orchestral arrangements with the JDK Electric Orchestra (they put out quite a few albums too). Only composer name that should jump out is Yuzo Koshiro, who did most of the music for Ys 1 and Ys 2 and Sorcerian-All the other composers are grouped under the name "Sound Team JDK".

And what exactly is proggy, antiquated and unwarranted twiddly bits? :omg:

[dma]

"proggy" means progressive. :)

[Eight Rooks]

Maybe not tinny, exactly, but it still sounds like some second-rate 1970s heavy metal album recorded in a very small bathroom to me. "Unwarranted twiddly bits" = bursts of guitar soloing that seem to do little to nothing to actually further the progression of the song/tune. "Proggy" as in progressive, yes; it's my general adjective I use to attack anything I feel is guilty of simply including convoluted and over-complex musical passages for the hell of it. I don't like Pink Floyd, Yes or Rush et al that much, y'see. :sweat: (Although oddly I really like Motoi.)

It's not as if I don't like full-on rrrock!!! or anything :yes: , or the general ambience thereof, I just don't think that much VGM does it anything like as well as it could, content to get bogged down in tired 10- or 20-year-old musical affectations, often to the severe detriment of what good points it does contain.

The F-Zero X guitar arrange flattens every single track on JDK Band #1 IMO, put it that way. Shockingly tight musicianship - it's far better playing than any GG album, actually, (and that bit is a fact, not an opinion, much as I prefer the GG soundtracks). Twiddly, but pretty much all of it feels like it serves a purpose. Keyboards that don't swamp the tracks in pseudo-80s nasal schmaltz. Guitar tone with a bottom end that doesn't sound like it's coming through a foot of thick mud, and treble that actually gives it some bite. Ditto the drums, even if they are maybe a bit too clattery at times - the impact on the kick on some of the breakdowns is a beautiful thing. The only place it can't compete is slow/acoustic stuff, since it, um, has none :sweat: .

Hope this doesn't come across as baseless trolling or anything - I just feel I have to get this stuff off my chest, sometimes...

[dma]

"Proggy" as in progressive, yes; it's my general adjective I use to attack anything I feel is guilty of simply including convoluted and over-complex musical passages for the hell of it. I don't like Pink Floyd, Yes or Rush et al that much, y'see. :sweat: (Although oddly I really like Motoi.)
Wow, you're judging Battle PS arrangements as being filled with "over-complex" passages? Sure the non-original parts of the arrangements are intentionaly "progressive metal" sounding, but not exagerated, imo.
But it's all about personnal opinion for such a judgement anyway. :)

It's not as if I don't like full-on rrrock!!! or anything :yes: , or the general ambience thereof, I just don't think that much VGM does it anything like as well as it could, content to get bogged down in tired 10- or 20-year-old musical affectations, often to the severe detriment of what good points it does contain.
I bet you don't like Dream Theater either, eh (at least their instrumental compositions)? Though it's not 10 years stuff. ;)
In non-vgm progressive music, i've heard things that could fit this "over-complex" description to my taste, like bands playing completly off-beat tunes in progressive metal... :rolleyes: And once again this is some really recent stuff. ;)

So, imo, little off-beat breaks and fast solos don't hurt. :D

[GoldfishX]

Maybe not tinny, exactly, but it still sounds like some second-rate 1970s heavy metal album recorded in a very small bathroom to me. "Unwarranted twiddly bits" = bursts of guitar soloing that seem to do little to nothing to actually further the progression of the song/tune. "Proggy" as in progressive, yes; it's my general adjective I use to attack anything I feel is guilty of simply including convoluted and over-complex musical passages for the hell of it. I don't like Pink Floyd, Yes or Rush et al that much, y'see. :sweat: (Although oddly I really like Motoi.)

It's not as if I don't like full-on rrrock!!! or anything :yes: , or the general ambience thereof, I just don't think that much VGM does it anything like as well as it could, content to get bogged down in tired 10- or 20-year-old musical affectations, often to the severe detriment of what good points it does contain.

The F-Zero X guitar arrange flattens every single track on JDK Band #1 IMO, put it that way. Shockingly tight musicianship - it's far better playing than any GG album, actually, (and that bit is a fact, not an opinion, much as I prefer the GG soundtracks). Twiddly, but pretty much all of it feels like it serves a purpose. Keyboards that don't swamp the tracks in pseudo-80s nasal schmaltz. Guitar tone with a bottom end that doesn't sound like it's coming through a foot of thick mud, and treble that actually gives it some bite. Ditto the drums, even if they are maybe a bit too clattery at times - the impact on the kick on some of the breakdowns is a beautiful thing. The only place it can't compete is slow/acoustic stuff, since it, um, has none :sweat: .

Hope this doesn't come across as baseless trolling or anything - I just feel I have to get this stuff off my chest, sometimes...

Well, maybe you can accept the fact that most VGM "rock" is done in more of a synth-rock, "proggy" style and will never quite be the kind you're thinking of, instead of pulling it down to where you think it should be (what is wrong with 10-20 year old music affectations? That doesn't even seem right, considering most VGM rock albums-JDK Band, Konami Battle-ARE 10 years old or older. They were made between 1991 and 1995. On top of that, most of the inspiration for Guilty Gear music came from the 80's to begin with) I mean, you sound like me when talking about VGM orchestral/symphonic music: as soon as the orchestra stops playing the main melody and starts doing "unwarranted orchestry bits", I lose interest because I generally find the instrumentation dull...I've stopped bitching about it because I just ignore most orchestral VGM, though there are a handful I enjoy (Terrashima's Electric Orchestra mostly).

My breakdown for F-Zero GA vs JDK Band 1 vs Guilty Gear comes off much simpler: JDK Band 1 has 9 original tunes which I consider bonafide classics and F-Zero GA has maybe four (Mute City, Big Blue, Track 8 and the staff roll) and Guilty Gear has about a 95% success rate overall. No amount of "superior playing" is going to bother me enough to overlook that I think the original compositions for JDK Band 1 and Guilty Gear would do just fine if stripped of their instrumentation and played as NES synth, while most of F-Zero X's tunes would sink like a rock.

And no, it's not baseless trolling (trust me, I've had to get a lot of things off my chest in the past :angel: ). I will say this though: You're looking at it too seriously. I don't think you WANT to like most of it, to be honest, and you're trying to find reasons not to, so you're just never going to. As someone who listens for a good melody first-and-foremost, I don't see how "tired 10-20 year old music affectations", "pseudo-80's nasal schmaltz", "unwarranted twiddly bits", "proggy", "antiquated" or whatever else never crossed my mind can get in the way of enjoying a solid rock original or arrangement with a good melody. Just avoid it, then, if you can't get over the way most it is handled. Now, if the melodies didn't stack up (cough...Dynasty Warriors...), then I might understand a bit better.

And yes, after seeing all that, I am extremely surprised to see you like Motoi Sakuraba... :omg:

[Eriol]

I think the original compositions for JDK Band 1 and Guilty Gear would do just fine if stripped of their instrumentation and played as NES synth, while most of F-Zero X's tunes would sink like a rock.

JDK material could probably be stripped down to NES synth because the original tunes were on MSX and PC-88, which had primitive synth already. Guilty Gear music would suffer under NES treatment. The whole game series was about rock, and NES synth can't handle that.

[]-/|\-oOo-/|\-[]

It's a mystery to me why no one in here has mentioned
The Advantage!! :anger: They are far more talented than any of the
VGM rock bands you guys are naming, IMO.

[GoldfishX]

JDK material could probably be stripped down to NES synth because the original tunes were on MSX and PC-88, which had primitive synth already. Guilty Gear music would suffer under NES treatment. The whole game series was about rock, and NES synth can't handle that.

Rockman music is mostly rock and the NES synth seems to handle it pretty well. I mean, there's drum samples, synths which could be easily subbed for guitars playing both the harmonies and the melodies...That's why it's such a mystery why they haven't arranged more Rockman music. In fact, most classic NES stuff I like would fall into the rock category (Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, Double Dragon, Contra...). Some Guilty Gear tracks would suffer if done as NES synth-ones like Feel a Fear, Bloodstained Lineage and Burly Heart-but I would still love the melodies overall. I mean, Guilty Gear X Arcade version used the ear-grating NAOMI board for the music (I'd rather listen to NES synth than that mess) and the GG melodies still managed to pull through. Tracks like Holy Orders, Blue Water Blue Sky, Unidentified Child, Suck a Sage, Momentary Life, Midnight Carnival, Sticks and Stones and Simple Life would sound good under any circumstance, because the composition is so rock-solid.

The Advantage? Who are they? I'm pretty into VGM rock and I've never heard of them...I'm interested, though.

[Eriol]

Your rock categorization is very wide. I only think a few Rockman tracks are rock-based. They may be high-energy tracks, but I cannot say that the style is rock. There just isn't enough synth variety in the NES to give me a sense of rock. The 16-bit generation is where the sound chips had enough to give a distinct rock impression.

[Eight Rooks]

You do know it's not as if I go out of my way to seek out new albums I've never heard of that I will not like in order to criticise them at great length? No matter how much my posting might make it seem that way... ^^;;;

I accept that I do probably take it too seriously, but I'm afraid I'm like that with all music, pretty much; I get really arrogant - really, really arrogant - if I think something could have been "better". I take your point about it being something I should likely just ignore, but I can't just stop listening to all rock VGM, indeed, all VGM, on the grounds it might piss me off... * shrugs * Meh, I'll try and keep bottling it up for a little longer this time, I guess.

[dma]

Your rock categorization is very wide. I only think a few Rockman tracks are rock-based. They may be high-energy tracks, but I cannot say that the style is rock. There just isn't enough synth variety in the NES to give me a sense of rock. The 16-bit generation is where the sound chips had enough to give a distinct rock impression.
A "real" style is mainly represented by the composition structure, more than the instruments types.
And some also classify music based on synthesis as a genre when it's just a instrument type. :)

[]-/|\-oOo-/|\-[]

"The Advantage? Who are they? I'm pretty into VGM rock and I've never heard of them...I'm interested, though."

GoldfishX, the Advantage is a NES cover band on the 5RC label. They have one CD that I know of which is just self-titled. You mentioned old VGM rock like Contra, Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, Double Dragon...they do faithful and spirited arrangements of songs from all those games you named on that CD, among others. Here:

http://www.buyolympia.com/killrockstars/sid=186261600/item=ger028

If you know the avant-prog band Hella, one of the guys from that act is in
The Advantage.

P.S. they are WAY, WAY better than any of the wanky, sloppy "NES bands" you may have heard before (i.e. Minibosses, Dark Mages, NESkimos, whatever).

[Adaman]

Well, that site you linked to there doesn't seem to like them, heh.

Anyone who does rock music of Bubble Bobble can't be all that bad though, I'll try and find some of their music.

[]-/|\-oOo-/|\-[]

Adaman:

"Well, that site you linked to there doesn't seem to like them, heh."

I'm assuming English isn't your first language? The site is raving about them!
Also it wouldn't make sense for them not to, since it's the main site of the label that puts out their records.

[dma]

That "Advantage" album looks interesting, if it sounds more pro than others fan bands, it can be great.
I found the Minibosses arrangements really nice, even if not always played on good synch. ;)

I'm not sure it's legaly right though.
Others cover bands do little album releases on their own so it doesn't matter much but here there's a label behind and i doubt this label paid fees to the original authors...

[GoldfishX]

I tried out the Ninja Gaiden Mine sample they had...Pretty simple stuff-more remastering than arranging-but pretty good overall. The back-up guitar sounded like it had trouble keeping up and the ending kinda just died, but the lead guitar keeps the melody nice and hummable. Not quite as good as Ailsean or the Minibosses, IMO, but (like I keep saying) if the melody's good enough, they can play it on NES synth and it'll sound good (oh wait...it WAS originally played on NES synth. :lol: )

Should be worth the $11 though. Thanks a bunch.

(Crosses fingers for Contra Snow Fields Arrangement).

[Adaman]

-/|\-oOo-/|\-[']Adaman:

"Well, that site you linked to there doesn't seem to like them, heh."

I'm assuming English isn't your first language? The site is raving about them!
Also it wouldn't make sense for them not to, since it's the main site of the label that puts out their records.

English is my only language, but they say Women think "Advantage record is without a doubt the most fucking shitting shit on god's fuckin' earf.", seems like an odd thing to say. I guess some could see that as raving about the album ._o

[]-/|\-oOo-/|\-[]

...and while we're on the subject of rock VGM:

http://www.ssh.ne.jp/index.html

[dma]

-/|\-oOo-/|\-[']http://www.ssh.ne.jp/index.html
Wow, there are some really fine (midi) arrangements there! :yesyes:

For example :
Dawn of Ys : http://www.ssh.ne.jp/mp3/ys4_doys.zip
Blast Wind : http://www.ssh.ne.jp/mp3/bw_ud.zip
Really great Castlevania medley (with an intro from Guilty Gear X and a Metallica insertion :wink:) : http://www.ssh.ne.jp/mp3/td.zip

[Grass-eatin'me]

Don't forget the brilliant Fighting of the Spirits fast arrange version =) By SSH, heheh.

The Advantage, was that the band with the creepy website? I don't have the time to check...

Well, those Japaneses are producing doujins to their hearts' contents, why shouldn't Americans do so as well? Look at Project Majestic Mix and Time & Space!

[GoldfishX]

Well, those Japaneses are producing doujins to their hearts' contents, why shouldn't Americans do so as well? Look at Project Majestic Mix and Time & Space!

No one will buy them in America if they're made here. People will buy them in Japan, because game music is more respected there (and by "game music", I mean real game music, not licensed crap that appears in so many US games).

[]-/|\-oOo-/|\-[]

Oh yeah, TempSoundSolutions is an OK NES cover band too eeven though they are real sloppy and basically just play real instruments over NSF files from what I can tell:

http://www.tempsoundsolutions.tk/

Go to MP3's and select "video game covers"...

They even do some Fami stuff, nice.